E-015 Grant Funded Challenges with Rochelle McLaurin, MBA, Kimberly Morones and Lucy Morgan CPA
Episode Summary:
### Quick Episode Summary Grant Talks Podcast [#015]
*Intro ***.41***
* Fire Away Questions Rochelle McLaurin, Kimberly Morones, and Lucy Morgan CPA ***1:02***
* Grant Funded Challenges: Why Managing Grants Is Like an Obstacle Course***5:14***
* Grant Funded Challenges: Tips for Post-Award Grant Management***7:44***
* Grant Funded Challenges: Improving Communication in the Grant Lifecycle ***9:11***
* The Last Word with Rochelle McLaurin and Kimberly Morones and Lucy Morgan CPA***13:42***
*Outro Audio GrantTalks Podcast with Lucy Morgan M. Morgan CPA ***16:58***
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Introducing Rochelle McLaurin and Kimberly Morones from Heluna Health in City of Industry, CA
Intro: 00:04
Welcome to the Grant Talks podcast with Lucy Morgan. Lucy is the CEO and director of MyFedTrainer.com a leading provider of grant management training and templates for federal grant recipients. This show is for grant professionals looking to gain confidence managing their grants. In an age of increasing complexity, you'll hear from leading professionals on the best practices surrounding grants, what's involved in successfully managing the grants lifecycle and how to make sure your grants are managed correctly. Now here's your host Lucy Morgan.
Lucy Morgan: 00:41
Welcome, everyone, to this conversation with Rochelle McLaurin and Kimberly Morones from Heluna Health in the City of Industry, California. I'm Lucy Morgan, your host for this session.
And I understand Heluna Health is celebrating its 50th anniversary this year. Woo-hoo. That's quite an accomplishment.
Rochelle McLaurin: 01:00
I know. We're all really excited.
Fire Away Questions Rochelle McLaurin, Kimberly Morones, and Lucy Morgan CPA
Lucy Morgan: 01:02
Fifty years. Rochelle, first of all, let me introduce you to our audience with a couple of our fire away questions. Your bio said you'd been in grants and contract management for over 20 years. Looking back, what do you wish you had known when you first started out?
Rochelle McLaurin: 01:18
Well, considering I'm only 22 years old, I feel that my parents should have reared me correctly. No, what I wish I had known was that it was such a broad industry and that there were so many components to it. I just went into it thinking, "Oh, this is just...I'll just do grant writing and that's it." Not understanding the full complexity, the broadness, all the different components to it that there really are and that there's been around for a long time.
Lucy Morgan: 01:51
What area do you wish you had spent more time on in your career? Because I know you've had a pretty varied career in the grants industry.
Rochelle McLaurin: 01:58
The part that I really enjoy now that I wish I had taken on understanding more of earlier on would be in the compliance area. Understanding the terms and conditions and how those truly impact what you've written into that proposal so once you're awarded, you know.
Lucy Morgan: 02:19
And I think that's an area that sometimes gets overlooked.
Rochelle McLaurin: 02:23
Definitely.
Lucy Morgan: 02:24
It's almost like a software agreement that nobody is really reading what got put into there.
Rochelle McLaurin: 02:29
Definitely. Definitely.
Lucy Morgan: 02:30
And Kimberly, thank you for joining us as well. It's your turn. Your bio says you've been working for small nonprofits, everything up to large multimillion-dollar county contracts. And I too have had what's called an accordion range of experience from big companies to little companies and back and forth with all different sizes.
Looking forward, what advice would you give someone who is debating between making that choice for a small company experience versus a big government choice for a career?
Kimberly Morones: 02:59
Yeah. Definitely. They're obviously very different. I think it's not like a one-size-fits-all, they're two very different types of experiences. So, I think depending on what you need and what your level of comfort is, there are benefits and drawbacks to both.
Obviously, with a small company, you're building the ship as it sails, so to speak, most of the time, you're building policies and procedures, you're helping build the infrastructure. But in that, there is a little bit more flexibility, there's more room for innovation, but also with that, obviously comes a little bit more risk.
So, on the opposite side, if you have a large government agency, there's more oversight, there's more guidance, there's more structure. But at the same time because of just a few extra levels of bureaucracy, there's a little bit less creativity and innovation. So, I think both...ideally, you would want to work in both places to get a well-rounded experience over the life span of your career.
Lucy Morgan: 03:57
So, we talked a little bit about how the actual organizational differences. If you talk about maybe positionally, so if I'm working in a small company, what's my job going to be like there versus going with a larger governmental entity?
What do you think are some of the benefits of starting with a small company versus a larger organization when it actually comes to what I'll do day in, day out type of thing?
Kimberly Morones: 04:19
Definitely. I think starting smaller, and this is, I think, a deep truth for many, many small nonprofits, is you're wearing 12 different hats. So, you're on the forefront of the day-to-day whether it be the budgeting side, the administrative side, or even the program implementation side, you are kind of getting that day-to-day day in, day out experience, which I think is a great benefit in terms of learning, applying. For me, it was applying what I learned in my master's program right away and getting that hands-on experience.
But then you start to realize, "Well, there are benefits to having a lot of oversight and more polished procedures or processes and having more infrastructure." So, there are definitely benefits to both and I think that you can always learn from wherever you are in life.
Grant Funded Challenges: Why Managing Grants Is Like an Obstacle Course
Lucy Morgan: 05:14
So, I'm excited about our topic for today because you guys were presenters at the NGMA nVision conference here in Washington, D.C. And I think the topic is one that many of us involved with grants can appreciate and it was called, "Grant Funded Challenges: Mastering the Obstacle Course." So, Rochelle, where did you get this concept of an obstacle course from?
Rochelle McLaurin: 05:36
Well, Lucy, just as you've said, for so many of us, it's something that we deal with on a daily basis. So, it wasn't hard to come up with that particular part, obstacle course, because just when Kimberly and I were coming out with what the presentation would consist of, we just had dealt with an issue and we're like, "Oh, my gosh. We're going through so many steps. It's like an obstacle course." So, then we're like, "There you go. That's where it is."
Lucy Morgan: 06:05
It was an inspiration. In your presentation, you mentioned that grant management has become a bottleneck of redundant tasks and red flags. Ooh, that paints a grim picture. Can you give some examples of this for our audience?
Rochelle McLaurin: 06:19
Definitely. Just for one of the situations we were dealing with, we were bringing on a new client and this particular client was an existing project. They had another fiscal sponsor, they had 80 employees, they had processes and procedures in place dealing with the county. And when they were coming to work with us and becoming a client of ours and we were partnering with them on various things, we had to realize that they were used to a certain way.
And so, we started trying to find ways to work with them and streamline. But in doing that, we created additional steps that they weren't previously used to like mileage claim forms, signing in on a computer for their timesheets, and filling out this form, doing various things, having numerous conference calls to make sure we were all on the same page instead of just trying to streamline and bring in what they were previously doing and bring it into the fold and slowly get them up to speed and feeling comfortable and understanding.
So, having 80 employees that were used to it one-way and then coming into our way, we created additional steps to assist them when it actually didn't assist them at that time. But now we're all on the same page.
Grant Funded Challenges: Tips for Post-Award Grant Management
Lucy Morgan: 07:44
If you were starting fresh, and sometimes when you're bringing in existing organizations, you don't have that benefit of a clean slate. So, you've got that glow, you just got that first grant and you think the hard work is done because you got the grant when in reality, the hard work is just going to start.
Where would you recommend someone start getting their arms around the challenges that organizations are going to inevitably face once they move into that post-award phase?
Rochelle McLaurin: 08:09
Well, definitely having a sit-down and having all the stakeholders at the table and trying to get on the same page as far as having seamless processes and procedures so that it can continue on because just once post-award, there's still so much that needs to occur. It's just not that's the end and that's it because there could be a revamp of a new project dealing with those same stakeholders. So, it's always important to make sure that your goal is to communicate, be on the same page, and learn lessons learned throughout that course of the life cycle of that particular project.
Lucy Morgan: 08:51
And I appreciate that you brought in that concept of it shouldn't just be and done, that there could be additional follow on, there could be modifications and things that happen throughout the life cycle to continue that on.
Rochelle McLaurin: 09:03
Definitely. I think as grant management specialists, we all understand that and we all have to be the leaders in making sure that that happens.
Grant Funded Challenges: Improving Communication in the Grant Lifecycle
Lucy Morgan: 09:11
Well, thank you, Rochelle. Let's bring Kimberly into this discussion again. Kimberly, one of the things that I really appreciated in your presentation was this emphasis on communication. Why do you think that communication continues to be an issue with so many organizations?
Kimberly Morones: 09:27
Definitely. Well, I think, yes, that's definitely true and I think part of the reason is we tend to forget that we all approach things in a different way and sometimes we're using different terms for the same thing, different languages as you say. And I think that we have to take a step back, bring other people, other departments to the table, other partners to the table, even PIs (Principal Investigators) to the table and just say, "Hey, how are we going to manage some of these communication pieces that aren't going to end up being vital to the success of this project, of this grant, and how do we make sure that everyone feels safe enough to communicate when there's an issue?"
Because I think when that doesn't happen and people try to circumvent dealing with a potential problem, then it becomes a real problem that could inevitably hurt the success of your grant or even closing out or even getting future funding. And I don't think anybody goes into the pre-award phase thinking, "Yeah, we definitely want to mess up some funder relationships, let's go for it." So, I think trying to resolve those issues in a timely way makes a huge difference.
Lucy Morgan: 10:43
And you raised a good point about sometimes we're using different words to describe the same things, but we don't understand each other. I think the keynote address the first day of the conference addressed that too where they realized that some people use the term contracts, sometimes people use the term award interchangeably, and grant, and cooperative agreement like they're all the same thing. We'll often argue about things when we really all mean the same things just because we don't have that common language. So, that's a great point.
You also talked about balancing decision-making and developing formal processes. Sometimes people feel those formal processes can...they're a little constraining. I like that flexibility, I like to be able to make decisions, snap, snap, snap without having to go through a lot of hoops. What are some of the ways that you've used to convince some of the doubters that don't like that formality in the process that a formal process could actually improve their decision-making process?
Kimberly Morones: 11:44
Yeah. So, I think for lack of a better way of saying it, the proof is in the pudding. I think once people...obviously, there's opposition, especially when you're working with researchers, with people who are so driven with innovation, and the work that they do is amazing. It's helping people and sometimes saving lives or providing people with these vital services.
So, I think you have to frame it for them as, "This is to help you continue doing your amazing work and even expand on that work to help you grow your program." And because, obviously funders look highly upon programs that have well-established processes, that have good reporting, that have clean audits.
So, I think that once they see the value in that and how that can help them further their passions, then that resonates to them a little bit more than saying, "No, you can't spend money on XYZ because I said so." It's not because I said so, it's because I want you to have a successful program.
Lucy Morgan: 12:44
Yeah. Anytime you start that conversation with, "What you need to understand is," in any relationship, personal relationships or in professional relationships, that's not going to end well.
If you could share one thing that you think would surprise grant managers about navigating the obstacle course of grant management, what do you think that would be, Kimberly?
Kimberly Morones: 13:04
I think just remembering that the guidance is out there. That you can always go back and do the research and really look into what you need to do to come out successfully.
I think that we live in a very digital age and there's an overwhelming amount of information that sometimes gets really daunting. But just with knowing where the resources are, talking to people, sharing lessons learned, resources and tools, and knowing how to get the guidance that you need and having open relationships with your funding agency, I think it doesn't get the clout that it should.
The Last Word with Rochelle McLaurin and Kimberly Morones and Lucy Morgan CPA
Lucy Morgan: 13:42
I appreciate that insight. And if you had to give the last word, is there something I should have asked about your presentation and some of the questions that you got that I did not ask?
Kimberly Morones: 13:54
I think one of the most valuable parts of our presentation was really...and obviously, it's difficult to share with just between Rochelle and I on the podcast because the energy in the room, everyone was really engaged and we made it more purposely a discussion type of style because there is so much value in sharing experiences and sharing lessons and growing together as a professional society, a professional group that I think that people working problems together can never be undervalued. It's difficult and it's time-consuming, but I think the results are worth the time and the effort.
Lucy Morgan: 14:34
Yeah. I think that's a great insight. It definitely is better when we can all work together to solve the problem and really think...and that's what grants are all about, right? We're all working together to solve problems.
Kimberly Morones: 14:45
Totally.
Lucy Morgan: 14:48
Rochelle, I want to make sure that we give you a chance too here. If someone would like to think more about this whole concept of navigating that obstacle course, what would be maybe one thing that you'd like to share with them too as we wrap up this section?
Rochelle McLaurin: 15:02
I would say, of course, continuing on with that theme of communication. If you have to take on the role of being the keynote, the main person, the liaison, or whatever it is, that you are that person, but backing that up by understanding the terms and conditions of that grant. Truly, if there's something that you don't have the answer to or you don't understand yourself, get the clarification.
There are so many resources out there, whether it's on a website or if it's someone that you can call such as yourself (Lucy) and just get that information so that you're comfortable, you're confident, and you can keep that project going because sometimes it's just literally where someone needs to have a person that they can contact to get clarification so that they can do their job. Whether it's the procurement department, whether it's the project director, whether it's a program manager, they know that they can all reach out to someone.
Lucy Morgan: 16:05
Thank you for that insight. Rochelle, if someone wants to get in touch with you and I'll ask Kimberly as well, what would be the best way to do that?
Rochelle McLaurin: 16:12
Sure. You can always reach me...my second home is Heluna Health. And like Lucy stated at the beginning, we are located in the City of Industry, California. So, you're always welcome. If you're in California, you can stop by. But otherwise, you can reach me at my email address which is [email protected].
Lucy Morgan: 16:33
And Kimberly, how about you?
Kimberly Morones: 16:38
Well, like Rochelle mentioned, I'm also at Heluna Health in the City of Industry and my email address is [email protected]. Thank you, Lucy Morgan.
Lucy Morgan: 16:48
Thank you both for participating in the "Grant Talks" podcast. Listeners, if you'd like to see more of the episodes and listen in, you can go to GrantTalks.com and get all the episodes. So, thank you very much for tuning in.
Outro Audio GrantTalks Podcast with Lucy M. Morgan CPA
Outro: 16:58
To learn more about how MyFedTrainer.com makes grant management more manageable, visit MyFedTrainer.com. That's MyFedTrainere.com. You'll find all the Grant Talks episodes at GrantTalks.com. That's GrantTalks.com.
More About Rochelle McLaurin, MBA:
Rochelle McLaurin, MBA is the Deputy Director of Contracts and Grants Management at Heluna Health. Rochelle has nearly 20 years of experience in the field of contract and grant management.
Throughout her career Rochelle has worked with various organizations as a leader in developing and training in the area of contract and grant policies and procedures. Rochelle holds her Master’s degree in Business Administration from the University of Redlands, School of Business.
More About Kimberly Morones, MPH, CHES:
Kimberly Morones, MPH, CHES, has been a Contracts and Grants Manager for Heluna Health since February 2018 and manages a portfolio ranging from small agency fund clients to multi-million dollar county contracts. Prior to this, she served as Program Manager for a small nonprofit, the Community Translational Research Institute (CTRI), since 2014.
She has also been a presenter and moderator throughout her career to numerous audiences at professional and scientific meetings. Kimberly holds her Master’s degree in Public Health from Claremont Graduate University is a Certified Health Education Specialist and holds her bachelor’s degree is in Biological Sciences from the University of California, Santa Barbara.
More About Lucy Morgan CPA:
Lucy M. Morgan is a CPA, MBA, GPA approved trainer, speaker, and author of 3 books including “Decoding Grant Management-The Ultimate Success Guide to the Federal Grant Regulations in 2 CFR Part 200.” As a leading authority on federal grant management for nonprofits, institutions of higher education and state, local and tribal governments she has written over 250 articles on grant management topics featured in LinkedIn, various publications and on the MyFedTrainer.com blog.
She is a sought-after presenter at national conferences sponsored by organizations such as the Grant Professional Association (GPA), National Grant Management Association (NGMA) and American Institute of Certified Public Accountants (AICPA).
Lucy is also a highly regarded trainer whose techniques and teaching style come from real-world experience. Having faced many of the same challenges her audiences have endured, Lucy understands that what looks good on paper may not always work in the real world. Because she has been there, she provides people of all professional backgrounds with practical tools to advance their careers and make a bigger difference in the world. She can be reached at [email protected].
>>Hear more about Lucy's story in Episode #004
More Resources for Grant Professionals
Thanks for checking out the Grant Talks podcast!
In this episode of Grant Talks, we talked about a subject that you may want to know more about:
- What Do Grant Managers Do?
So...as promised I want to share some resources that may help you on YOUR grant journey.
Do you ever feel at a loss to describe to your boss and others what grant management is all about?
That’s why I put together this simple infographic on what grant managers do that you can download and share.
I know Grant Managers wear many hats…
And sometimes have to “toot our own horns” just a little bit about the important role we play in keeping our organization out of trouble so the grant funds keep flowing. 😊
I hope this little Infographic will keep you on the journey to more federal grants and better grant management.
This Infographic walks you through nine key areas that are critical to good grant management.
Here's what’s included:
- What crucial roles grant manager fulfill in the grant management lifecycle
- Best practices for laying out the grant management function at your organization and more…
These resources are designed for grant managers, just like you, and I hope that you will find them valuable on your grant journey.
Click here to download and share
P.S. If you’d like to learn more about being a grant manager, check out my article at https://blog.myfedtrainer.com/seven-ways-to-improve-grant-management-part-i/
