E-013 More Developing Grant Policies with Patrick Ballinger and Lucy Morgan CPA

change management federal funding federal grants grant management uniform guidance Oct 16, 2019

Episode Summary:

### Quick Episode Summary Grant Talks Podcast [#013]

*Intro ***.41***

* Fire Away Questions Patrick Ballinger and Lucy Morgan CPA ***1:22***

* The Risks of Not Following the Grant Rules***2:47***

* The Role of Organizational Culture in Change Management ***4:00***

* Lessons Learned: Mitigating Risk with Multiple Stakeholders ***4:43***

* Overcoming Discouragement in Project Management ***5:58***

* The Differences Between Leading Change and Managing Change **6:59***

* Procurement: Critical Partners in Developing Policies **8:20***

* Best Takeaways for Improving Grant Policies and Procedures***9:26***

* The Last Word with Patrick Ballinger and Lucy Morgan CPA***10:28***

*Outro Audio GrantTalks Podcast with Lucy M. Morgan CPA ***11:48***

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Intro: 00:04

Welcome to the Grant Talks podcast with Lucy Morgan. Lucy is the CEO and director of MyFedTrainer.com a leading provider of grant management training and templates for federal grant recipients. This show is for grant professionals looking to gain confidence managing their grants. In an age of increasing complexity, you'll hear from leading professionals on the best practices surrounding grants, what's involved in successfully managing the grants lifecycle and how to make sure your grants are managed correctly. Now here's your host Lucy Morgan.

Introducing Patrick Ballinger from Pasco County FL Government

Lucy M. Morgan: 00:41

Welcome everyone to this continued conversation with Patrick Ballinger. Patrick works for Pasco County, Florida as the Grants Coordinator with the Office of Management and Budget and serves as the county's Public Assistance Officer. Patrick's focus has been on bringing centralized grant management to Pasco County. He brings a diverse grant background, including involvement with grants from the application to the closeout with various federal and state agencies. He's been a grant professional since 2011 including contract management with the Department of Children and Families and as a Grant Specialist for Hernando County, Florida, and I'm Lucy Morgan, your host for this session. Welcome back, Patrick.

Patrick Ballinger: 01:21

Thank you.

Fire Away Questions Patrick Ballinger and Lucy Morgan CPA

Lucy M. Morgan: 01:22

First of all, let's get to know you a little better with a couple of "fire away" questions and I happen to know that you are a Star Wars fan. What aspect of the hero's journey in Star Wars do you find particularly inspiring in the context of grants management?

Patrick Ballinger: 01:38

Well, I think in particular it actually revolves around the force. And the force is because a lot of times with grants you have to feel the grants. You actually have to understand, while they may not actually make any sense at that time, you're going with that instinct of what is right and what is wrong. And of course, you always could fall into that dark side of the grants and the temptations and cut corners and do the things you shouldn't be doing. And of course, that's where you get in trouble and that's where you know where you're getting that dark side. So.

Lucy M. Morgan: 02:10

I love that. And your presentation at the NGMA conference talked about the Odyssey. So, what do you think some of the parallels between the Star Wars journey and Homer's Odyssey are?

Patrick Ballinger: 02:21

Well, there's definitely a lot of themes there. There's good versus evil. There is the hero's journey. There are the impossible odds that Odysseus is constantly always undergoing, trying to basically get back to his wife. And you know that's the deep-seated goal of the entire book is him wanting to get back to his wife and getting back to his life. And of course, he constantly gets setbacks.

The Risks of Not Following the Grant Rules

Lucy M. Morgan: 02:47

I'm going to have to go read something more than just the Cliff Notes version of the Odyssey because this has inspired me hearing more about that journey. Patrick, in our last section we talked about some of the challenges that you faced when you started working to centralize the grant management functions in your county and improve the policies and guides around these functions. And I think we talked a little bit about the concept of how accountability is a big part of the Uniform Guidance with federal grant recipients as well. Let's get into some of the lessons learned about that experience. You talked about how everyone wants the reward, that extra funding, we want the money, but people lose sight of the risks and the details. Can you describe some of the risks an organization takes when they forget about the details of receiving funding, particularly federal funding?

Patrick Ballinger: 03:33

Absolutely. You have audit findings. You could lose funding, you could have, you may have to repay that funding. You could quite possibly get potentially arrested. Just all kinds of different terrible things can end up happening. You can have restrictions placed on your grant awards in the future that you're going to have to now do an extra level of activity because of complications and things that you've done incorrectly in the past. Strategies for Overcoming Resistance to Change

Lucy Morgan: 04:29

Pay and pray. I like that. Well, what are some of the strategies that you've used to overcome that natural human tendency to resist change, especially in a governmental setting?

Patrick Ballinger: 04:41

Establish a rapport with whoever you're dealing with. Come find those commonalities with them. Go to their office, see that, "Hey, you've got a picture of a dog. Tell me about your dog." Or maybe they have Star Wars toys or some other interesting knickknacks around the office that shows that they have an appreciation for something and you find that human connection. Once you make that human connection, a lot of times they start realizing that you're not the enemy. You're actually their coworker and they'll have that respect for you.

The Role of Organizational Culture in Change Management

Lucy M. Morgan: 04:00

And what role does the organizational culture, contribute to this issue of being kind of almost in risk denial? Like they don't think anything bad has happened because it hasn't happened in the past.

Patrick Ballinger: 04:12

Wow. A lot of times people just like, "Well, this never happens to me. You know, we've never had to deal with this before. We've never had this issue before." And a lot of people don't really acknowledge that until it actually comes up and it's in their face and they're going, "Wow, this actually happened. "

Lucy M. Morgan: 04:30

It seems in my experience too that it doesn't always happen quickly, that the bad things happen. Sometimes people go on for a number of years thinking that everything's okay until it's not.

Patrick Ballinger: 04:43

Absolutely.

Lessons Learned: Mitigating Risk with Multiple Stakeholders

Lucy M. Morgan: 04:43

So, I'm sure many of us at this point can relate to some of the challenges that you've faced with the development work that you've been doing in your county. Let's get into some of the insights and some of the major lessons that you learned about this experience. My question for you is how can you overcome and mitigate the risks that are inherent in a process that involves a lot of different stakeholders? And I think we talked, in our last conversation about how many stakeholders there were and how surprising that was.

Patrick Ballinger: 05:11

Absolutely. One of the key ones is communication. With teamwork, spell it out, make sure that you are properly educating everybody, teaching them how and why. And also, one more important thing is again, as the group meetings. If you're having all the stakeholders sitting in the room together, this is an actual, very key important piece right here in Pasco County, one of the departments, the Emergency Management department, they're really good about making sure we have all the right people sitting in the meetings and making sure that we're all communicating, all on the same page and everybody's agreeing.

Lucy M. Morgan: 05:48

You mentioned that that's a key point. Do you feel like if you don't have all the people in the room that it's too easy to just blame shift and things like that?

Patrick Ballinger: 05:56

Oh, absolutely, you're doomed for failure.

Overcoming Discouragement in Project Management

Lucy M. Morgan: 05:58

What perspective can you offer someone that might be at a point in the process where they're feeling a bit discouraged. Maybe the progress for the organization or the project is not going as fast as they hoped or maybe they're getting some of those reactions from their colleagues that kind of can be a bit discouraging at times.

Patrick Ballinger: 06:17

Well, the big thing is just to remember that you're not alone. If you talk to any other grant professional, and I recommend that, is make sure that you're networking with other grant professionals and talk those frustrations out amongst them. Because a lot of times when you call up somebody, for example, I'll call some of my former coworkers and my old county in Hernando and we'll chit chat and we'll be like, "Wow, you're going through that same issue." And then when I've actually talked to other people in the NGMA, down south and it's again the same thing. They're like, "Wow, okay, you're going through these same struggles and you are a larger county then what I'm sitting in right here." You know and you reaffirm that you're not alone.

The Differences Between Leading Change and Managing Change

Lucy M. Morgan: 06:59

I know when I first got into grants, I tell people I felt like the Maytag repairman. And then my daughter, said, "You better tell people which Maytag repairmen you're talking about because there's like the old lonely guy and then there's like the new buff guys." And I went, "No, I meant the old lonely guy because I felt like I was all alone." I didn't realize there were these great professional organizations and things like that to network with. What do you see as some of the differences between leading a change and managing a change? We talked about this a little bit in our last episode of the difference between grant management and grant leadership. So, what are some of the differences between leading change and managing change, like the one that you went through with your grant office?

Patrick Ballinger: 07:41

Well, it's still in progress, but definitely taking that role of leadership and guiding people and actually getting them to where we need to be. And you can do a lot of the management parts, but you also have to also spread those out amongst everybody. And you even have to make everybody else a leader as well at certain points of the grant cycle and let them take the lead.

Lucy M. Morgan: 08:03

How do you encourage people to step into those leadership roles?

Patrick Ballinger: 08:06

Kicking and screaming usually, no? But usually most of the time it's, you're encouraging, you're being positive. They're the professionals, they're the subject matter experts and they're the people who should be taking that lead.

Procurement: Critical Partners in Developing Policies

Lucy M. Morgan: 08:20

Very good. And I noticed in your presentation, you saved a special mention for procurement about this journey. Why do you think procurement is such a critical partner in developing grant policies and guidance?

Patrick Ballinger: 08:33

I think it's the most complex part of the grant process and also, it's where the most common audit findings happen and that's where you can risk a lot of your de-obligations. That's where you also have your highest amount of risks that you can look to mitigate.

Lucy M. Morgan: 08:51

And you mentioned about, that's where the audit findings are. Do you think that that's also where the largest audit findings tend to be is through the procurement functions?

Patrick Ballinger: 08:59

I definitely think if it's not the highest. It's, it's definitely up there.

Lucy M. Morgan: 09:03

Do you find it difficult to get procurement involved in the process improvement?

Patrick Ballinger: 09:07

It's taken time, but in my own county, they're embracing it now and they come to me on a regular basis and we have great discussions and they're not afraid to actually ask questions. And so, it's good. It's good that you know that education's working.

Best Takeaways for Improving Grant Policies and Procedures

Lucy M. Morgan: 09:26

What's your best takeaway for someone who wants to improve their grant policies and procedures at their organization?

Patrick Ballinger: 09:32

Wow. I would definitely say try networking and just making sure that you have that network of people and confidants that you can rely upon. In the case of the Odyssey, Odysseus went into the underworld and he asked, from help from people in the past that have been long deceased. And it's that same thing. We know we don't have a map to the underworld like Odysseus did, but we can turn around and we can easily ask, "Hey, I want to talk to my old mentor or I want to talk to my old coworker or I'm going to talk to someone in the NGMA. You're going to get a hold to those people and you're going to say, "Hey, what do you think about this?" You know, I think often we've had that conversation too where I've asked you a few things and that network is great and that's very appreciated right there.

Lucy M. Morgan: 10:24

We don't have to be, we don't have to feel alone.

Patrick Ballinger: 10:27

Absolutely. Yeah.

The Last Word with Patrick Ballinger and Lucy Morgan CPA

Lucy M. Morgan: 10:28

Well, I want to thank you again, Patrick, for this interesting conversation about grants management. And I'd like to give you the last word. Is there anything I should have asked but I did not?

Patrick Ballinger: 10:39

Well, I think earlier we talked about Homer Simpson and even Homer eventually get something right. He may have to do a couple of tries before he does. And again, we feel like we may even be working with these Homer Simpson's ourselves and it happens. But the thing is if you have good guidance and you have everything in place, they're going to make good decisions. And that's overall what the biggest goal is, you have that good guidance in place, you're never going to falter.

Lucy M. Morgan: 11:11

Thank you for that insight. And I'm glad to know that even Homer, it's like finds the nut, right, even the blind squirrel. If someone would like to find out more about you, how should they get in touch?

Patrick Ballinger: 11:23

Well, they could reach out to me in the NGMA network. They could also reach me through my email at [email protected] and otherwise, I look forward to hearing from you if you've got any questions.

Lucy M. Morgan: 11:37

Thank you so much for participating in this Grant Talks podcast. Listeners, you can find all the episodes out on Grant Talks.com and thank you for tuning in.

Outro Audio GrantTalks Podcast with Lucy M. Morgan CPA

Outro: 11:48

To learn more about how MyFedTrainer.com makes grant management more manageable, visit MyFedTrainer.com. That's MyFedTrainere.com. You'll find all the Grant Talks episodes at GrantTalks.com. That's GrantTalks.com.

More About Patrick Ballinger:

Patrick is currently employed as Pasco County Grants Coordinator with the Office of Management and Budget and the County’s Public Assistance Officer. Focused on bringing centralized grant management to Pasco County, Patrick has been involved with grants from application to close with various Federal and State agencies throughout his career.

A professional in the world of grants since 2011, including Contract Management with the Department of Children and Families and as a Grants Specialist for Hernando County. In his spare time, he enjoys historical miniature wargaming, craft beers, wine tastings, cooking, science fiction, his Basset Hound, and traveling with his wife, Marcie.

More About Lucy Morgan:

Lucy M. Morgan is a CPA, MBA, GPA approved trainer, speaker, and author of 3 books including “Decoding Grant Management-The Ultimate Success Guide to the Federal Grant Regulations in 2 CFR Part 200.” As a leading authority on federal grant management for nonprofits, institutions of higher education and state, local and tribal governments she has written over 250 articles on grant management topics featured in LinkedIn, various publications and on the MyFedTrainer.com blog.

She is a sought-after presenter at national conferences sponsored by organizations such as the Grant Professional Association (GPA), National Grant Management Association (NGMA) and American Institute of Certified Public Accountants (AICPA).

Lucy is also a highly regarded trainer whose techniques and teaching style come from real-world experience. Having faced many of the same challenges her audiences have endured, Lucy understands that what looks good on paper may not always work in the real world. Because she has been there, she provides people of all professional backgrounds with practical tools to advance their careers and make a bigger difference in the world. She can be reached at [email protected].

>>Hear more about Lucy's story in Episode #004

More Resources for Grant Professionals

Thanks for checking out the Grant Talks podcast!

In this episode of Grant Talks, we talked about a subject that you may want to know more about:

The Rules About Federal Grants

So...as promised I want to share some resources that may help you on YOUR grant journey.

You may have heard of the many names for the new grant regulations that govern federal grants:

Uniform Guidance
Super Circular
UGG

Or just “UG”

Somehow, that seems so appropriate! 😊

All of these names describe the same set of regulations for federal grants known as 2 CFR Part 200.

(And you heard Patrick and I talk about some of the ways that you can get into BIG trouble when you don’t follow the rules.)

So, if you are feeling a bit overwhelmed or confused by all the moving parts, that is perfectly normal!

So, I want to make this more manageable…

That’s why I put together this simple roadmap on the main parts of the Uniform Guidance called the Administrative Requirements.

These are the “nuts and bolts” of how you manage your responsibilities when you get a federal award.

(Did you think it was still money without “strings” attached?

This little guide is a great first step on the journey to less risk of expensive cost disallowance and better grant management.

This Guide to the Administrative Requirements walks you through the main areas of grant management under the Uniform Guidance and gives you questions to consider at each step of the way.

Here's what’s included:

5 questions you should ask before you even get your first federal award
4 questions to answer about the increased requirements for monitoring and reporting
And seven “You’ve got the grant, now what?” questions you should be asking and more…

These resources are designed for grant managers, just like you, and I hope that you will find them valuable on your grant journey.

Click here to download and share

P.S. Discover more success tips for managing federal grants in my article at https://blog.myfedtrainer.com/7-success-tips-from-decoding-grant-management/