E-012 The Odyssey-Developing Grant Policies with Patrick Ballinger and Lucy Morgan CPA
Episode Summary:
### Quick Episode Summary Grant Talks Podcast [#012]
*Intro ***.41***
* Fire Away Questions Patrick Ballinger and Lucy Morgan CPA ***1:25***
* Real-World Challenges of Centralized Grant Management***3:05***
* Strategies for Overcoming Resistance to Change ***4:29***
* Creating Better Grant Guides and Policies-Where to Start***5:15***
* What Greek Mythology Can Teach Us About Policy Development ***5:51***
* Why Storytelling Matters to Change Management ***6:51***
* 2 Biggest Surprises in Developing Grant Policy and Guidance **9:24***
* The Last Word with Patrick Ballinger and Lucy Morgan CPA***11:08***
*Outro Audio GrantTalks Podcast with Lucy M. Morgan CPA ***12:44***
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Intro: 00:04
Welcome to the Grant Talks podcast with Lucy Morgan. Lucy is the CEO and director of MyFedTrainer.com a leading provider of grant management training and templates for federal grant recipients. This show is for grant professionals looking to gain confidence managing their grants. In an age of increasing complexity, you'll hear from leading professionals on the best practices surrounding grants, what's involved in successfully managing the grants lifecycle and how to make sure your grants are managed correctly. Now here's your host Lucy Morgan.
Introducing Patrick Ballinger from Pasco County FL Government
Lucy Morgan: 00:41
Welcome everyone to this conversation with Patrick Ballinger. Patrick works for Pasco County, Florida as a grants coordinator with the Office of Management and Budget and serves as the county's public assistance officer. Patrick's focus has been on bringing centralized grant management to Pasco County, Florida. He brings a diverse grant background involving everything from grants from the application to the closeout with various federal and state agencies. He's been a grant professional since 2011 including contract management with the Department of Children and Families and as a grant specialist for Hernando County, Florida, and I'm Lucy Morgan, the host for your session. Welcome. Patrick. I have a few "fire away" questions to introduce you to our audience. Are you ready?
Fire Away Questions Patrick Ballinger and Lucy Morgan CPA
Patrick Ballinger: 01:25
Absolutely.
Lucy Morgan: 01:26
So, the first question I have for you just to help people to get to know you a little better. What's your go-to order at your favorite out of town restaurant?
Patrick Ballinger: 01:35
Oh. To be honest, I actually always tried to find new and unique places to eat at. So, it's not necessarily as much a go-to as what is new that I can't eat where I normally am. In Pasco County, a lot of things are Greek and Cuban and things like that. So, like coming up here to Washington DC, it's, I want to try Russian and I want to try Afghani and I want to try all different types of things in this city.
Lucy Morgan: 02:02
So, you're not an Applebee's kind of guy?
Patrick Ballinger: 02:04
No.
Lucy Morgan: 02:05
Very good. What is the most surprising thing to you about living in Florida?
Patrick Ballinger: 02:11
The lack of seasons. It's just hot, then damn it's hot, and then all of a sudden, it's pretty nice.
Lucy Morgan: 02:19
And I grew up in Minnesota, so I'm used to cold, damn it's cold and it's a little bit warmer, but it's still pretty cold. My third question for you is what are you curious about right now?
Patrick Ballinger: 02:33
Well, professionally it's with the Trump administration right now with 2 CFR 200 with the dissolving of the committee that originally put everything together, I'm kind of curious to see what direction OMB is going to take in managing the 2 CFR 200 and what changes that we're going to see. You know, there has been a lot of promises out there of we're going to see a lot of, things changing deregulating, and we really haven't seen that yet. So, I'm kind of curious if we're going to see that potentially when he comes around for a second term.
Real-World Challenges of Centralized Grant Management
Lucy Morgan: 03:05
Very good. Well, Patrick, your bio said you'd been focused on bringing centralized grant management to your county grants administration and your presentation at the NGMA Conference is called "The Odyssey-Developing a Grant Policy and Guide" and it tells a tale of overcoming resistance in the journey. What have been some of the challenges that you've encountered on that journey to bringing those grant management functions together?
Patrick Ballinger: 03:31
Actually, they're still ongoing and I probably would say the biggest challenge would be making people understand exactly what your purpose is. Because if you think about it, anybody in the grants professional world, we really didn't exist, five years, 10 years ago, on the scale that we're in now as things like 2 CFR 200 and things like that, are slowly, becoming more and more prevalent. It's becoming more and more important for people to actually pay attention to.
Lucy Morgan: 04:02
Do you feel like there's a lot more accountability built into 2 CFR Part 200?
Patrick Ballinger: 04:06
Absolutely. And including, I think even the states are starting to come that way as well. I think they're starting to kind of follow suit behind the fence.
Lucy Morgan: 04:15
Yeah. I think in the olden days, in the olden days before the Uniform Guidance, it seemed like they give you the money and it was more of a "hope for the best" strategy, which has really changed a lot with the Uniform Guidance.
Patrick Ballinger: 04:28
Pay and pray.
Strategies for Overcoming Resistance to Change
Lucy Morgan: 04:29
Pay and pray. I like that. Well, what are some of the strategies that you've used to overcome that natural human tendency to resist change, especially in a governmental setting?
Patrick Ballinger: 04:41
Establish a rapport with whoever you're dealing with. Come find those commonalities with them. Go to their office, see that, "Hey, you've got a picture of a dog. Tell me about your dog." Or maybe they have Star Wars toys or some other interesting knickknacks around the office that shows that they have an appreciation for something and you find that human connection. Once you make that human connection, a lot of times they start realizing that you're not the enemy. You're actually their coworker and they'll have that respect for you.
Creating Better Grant Guides and Policies-Where to Start
Lucy Morgan: 05:15
And for someone just starting on this journey of creating more robust grant guides and policies, what advice would you give them about a good place to start,
Patrick Ballinger: 05:25
Create a network. Don't do it by yourself. Work together to create that team, to take ownership, in what you're doing for your grants community. If you try to do it by yourself, you're going to fail.
Lucy Morgan: 05:39
Do you find that most people are resistant to change, especially in a governmental setting? Or do you find that you have a good team atmosphere of people that will champion change?
Patrick Ballinger: 05:50
It's a mix.
What Greek Mythology Can Teach Us About Policy Development
Lucy Morgan: 05:51
In your presentation, you used the example of Homer's Odyssey for developing grant policies and guides and you noted that we weren't talking about Homer Simpson. I love that slide with the Homer, the other Homer. What do you think Greek mythology can teach us about policy development?
Patrick Ballinger: 06:08
Well, there's a variety of different things that it actually offers a culture, leadership. It teaches you morals to your stories, to pay attention to these things because bad things will happen. And as we know in the grant world, bad things will happen. It teaches the heroes quest or struggle, which is something we go through every day. We're in my eyes, a lot of times the unsung heroes in the government entity, as we're going through and constantly trying to put out fires and find solutions with limited resources and, limited personnel and things like that. So, we have a lot that we have to do and it's, very Herculean if you, put it mildly.
Why Storytelling Matters to Change Management
Lucy Morgan: 06:51
And I really appreciate you bringing that up because I oftentimes think, especially a lot of governmental workers, they may not get some of the credit that's due for all the good work that's happening, particularly with grants. The federal government is the largest source of funding for all the good work that's happening with grants, I think in the world. I've yet to find anybody larger than the federal government. So, without people to actually implement those grants on a local level, the work wouldn't be getting done. So, I'm glad that you gave me a chance to recognize that as well. One of the things that impressed me in your presentation is this concept of storytelling and how that really from the beginning of man, we told stories to get points across. Why do you think storytelling is so important in change management?
Patrick Ballinger: 07:38
Well, people always enjoy a good story and if you can capture a person's attention, they'll actually have a tendency to learn better, if you will than before. When you have like the situation in college, we had a story teller's circle in our “Psychology of Communication.” We were actually teaching that, as you exchange ideas and as you're developing that story together, it actually builds off one another and that's ultimately what you're doing in the grant community is you're building off one another's work.
Lucy Morgan: 08:09
And I just have to ask as you talked about this in your presentation, what is the origin story for "It's all Greek to me" (with air quotes there) something that I am betting many of us had felt when we came to reading grant regulations.
Patrick Ballinger: 08:22
Well, the original part came from the Middle Ages where there were monks and they were transcribing different types of works over, and a lot of times they didn't understand the Greek alphabet. But the most famous is actually Shakespeare, and it was in Julius Caesar and it was with Casio and Cassius. We're actually talking about a speech that was given by another character, and he actually said "It was all Greek to me" because he spoke in Greek and this guy didn't understand Greek basically. So, he didn't understand what this cat was saying, but he said everybody else was nodding their head, obviously, they really agreed with what he said, but I had no clue what it was all about. And I think a lot of times when you have people and you're talking to things about grants with them, they're nodding their heads and sometimes I don't think that they're actually understanding what you're really saying to them. Instead, they should be like, "Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa! I'm not understanding what you're saying. Could you actually put that in plain language? Could you actually explain that to me a little bit better? "
2 Biggest Surprises in Developing Grant Policy and Guidance
Lucy Morgan: 09:24
I can really relate to that. I know when I got into grants, you know I am a CPA and I never had any class on grants. Here I am managing all these grants and I can remember feeling that way in some of those first meetings where people were talking about EVM and MTDC and all these things, I had no clue what they were talking about. And I felt that way too, where I was afraid to raise my hand and say, I didn't want to appear stupid and say, "Hey, I don't know what you're talking about." But I couldn't really relate to that. It all seemed like Greek to me because there's almost a jargon or you almost felt like you're not in the circle if you don't understand all these acronyms. So that was an appropriate choice of metaphors for your story. It sounds like it's been quite a journey for you. Looking back, what about developing grant policy and guidance? Most surprised you as you've been working through this with your county government?
Patrick Ballinger: 10:17
It takes time. To be honest, if you are ambitious and you think you're going to have it done in 30 days or within a couple of months, you are actually going to find yourself very, very surprised. And you know, because you're going to start bringing up different questions, you're going to start looking at different elements and then not only as you're looking at the federal side, you're also looking at the state, you're looking at, the local laws. You're looking at your own ordinances within potentially your county or your local government and you're like going, "Wow, okay, I now have to really consider a lot of different elements here in each of these sections as I'm developing these policies and this guidance."
Lucy Morgan: 11:00
Were you surprised by how many different stakeholders there were as you started working through some of these policies?
Patrick Ballinger: 11:05
Absolutely. It is mind-boggling actually.
The Last Word with Patrick Ballinger and Lucy Morgan CPA
Lucy Morgan: 11:08
Well, thank you, Patrick, for sharing some of these challenges with us. I want to give you the last word in this interview. Is there anything I should've asked you about but I didn't?
Patrick Ballinger: 11:20
I think one of the biggest things also in the presentation is talking about management and leadership. And I think that's very important in the grants community. As you know in management, you're organizing resources, you're planning, you're appropriating resources, money people, things like that. And then leadership, you're inspiring, you're actually guiding the people. And I feel a lot of times that in the grants community, we're not really taking that leadership role as much as we should and actually guiding the people to where they need to be and to that understanding.
Lucy Morgan: 11:53
And how do you think would be a good first step with that to get people inspired to be better leaders as grant managers, not just the grant managers, but grant leaders?
Patrick Ballinger: 11:54
Wow. I would probably say a lot of that would be communication. Communication would be the paramount pillar that you're going to need to build upon to be able to get to the ultimate goal.
Lucy Morgan: 12:14
All right. Well, thank you for that insight. If someone would like to find out more about you, how could they get in touch with you?
Patrick Ballinger: 12:20
They could reach me at Pasco County government. My email is, [email protected].
Lucy Morgan: 12:30
Well, thank you so much for participating in this Grant Talks podcast. Listeners, you can find all the episodes out at GrantTalks.com and I want to thank you for tuning in.
Outro Audio GrantTalks Podcast with Lucy M. Morgan CPA
Outro: 12:44
To learn more about how MyFedTrainer.com makes grant management more manageable, visit MyFedTrainer.com. That's MyFedTrainere.com. You'll find all the Grant Talks episodes at GrantTalks.com. That's GrantTalks.com.
More About Patrick Ballinger:
Patrick is currently employed as Pasco County Grants Coordinator with the Office of Management and Budget and the County’s Public Assistance Officer. Focused on bringing centralized grant management to Pasco County, Patrick has been involved with grants from application to close with various Federal and State agencies throughout his career.
A professional in the world of grants since 2011, including Contract Management with the Department of Children and Families and as a Grants Specialist for Hernando County. In his spare time, he enjoys historical miniature wargaming, craft beers, wine tastings, cooking, science fiction, his Basset Hound, and traveling with his wife, Marcie.
More About Lucy Morgan:
Lucy M. Morgan is a CPA, MBA, GPA approved trainer, speaker, and author of 3 books including “Decoding Grant Management-The Ultimate Success Guide to the Federal Grant Regulations in 2 CFR Part 200.” As a leading authority on federal grant management for nonprofits, institutions of higher education and state, local and tribal governments she has written over 250 articles on grant management topics featured in LinkedIn, various publications and on the MyFedTrainer.com blog.
She is a sought-after presenter at national conferences sponsored by organizations such as the Grant Professional Association (GPA), National Grant Management Association (NGMA) and American Institute of Certified Public Accountants (AICPA).
Lucy is also a highly regarded trainer whose techniques and teaching style come from real-world experience. Having faced many of the same challenges her audiences have endured, Lucy understands that what looks good on paper may not always work in the real world. Because she has been there, she provides people of all professional backgrounds with practical tools to advance their careers and make a bigger difference in the world. She can be reached at [email protected].
>>Hear more about Lucy's story in Episode #004
More Resources for Grant Professionals
Thanks for checking out the Grant Talks podcast!
In this episode of Grant Talks, we talked about a subject that you may want to know more about:
So...as promised I want to share some resources that may help you on YOUR grant journey.
Recently I’ve talked with a number of folks who discovered TOO LATE that their grants had spending restrictions that were a complete surprise!
(And part of your grant policies should address spending restrictions on how grant funds can be used…)
So, I thought this might be a good time to help you avoid those types of BIG “oopsies” that lead to disallowed costs with a Pre-Award checklist!
(Getting everyone on the same page starts before you even receive federal funding!)
I hope this little one-page checklist will be a communication tool that keeps you on the journey to more federal grants and better grant management.
Download and share with your team.
This week the Grant Tip is our [Pre-award Checklist]
Here's what’s included in this handy checklist:
- Common areas of spending restrictions
- Additional requirements that can get “tucked in” to your Notice of Funding
These resources are designed for grant writers and managers, just like you, and I hope that you will find them valuable on your grant journey.
Click here to download and share
P.S. If you’d like to learn more about ways to improve grant management, check out my article at
https://blog.myfedtrainer.com/seven-ways-to-improve-grant-management-part-i/
